Michael is Low on Hit Points

1)  jpmeyer

Wait, I thought people generally liked Tokyo Magnitude 8.0? The only complaints I remember seeing were either "Mirai is annoying" (not really a legit complaint) or "The plot twist at the end cheapened the show" (legit).

2)  relentlessflame

Ahh... more words of wisdom. I think you've hit the nail on the head in so many ways that I scarcely know where to start...

Well, let's try this. The main focus of the blogosphere and people who post on forums is generally to have their opinions be heard. The main ways they accomplish this are by being quick, and by being loud. And what this lends itself to is snap judgements, criticism, and witty repartee; what this does *not* lend itself to is withheld/tentative judgement, careful consideration, and a focus on context. It develops into a sort of "what've you done for me lately" mentality, where every episode is sliced and diced on its standalone merits without consideration for larger issues like theme, progressive development, and the interconnectivity of plot points and elements. Perhaps you can afford to take this sort of attitude for shows that are extremely episodic, but since so many anime series are tightly-bound in terms of their story, this ultra-short-term thinking generally does most anime a huge disservice. Indeed, I suspect that many people would have a much greater enjoyment of anime if they were to watch it in large blocks or batches rather than focus on the week-to-week... but I'll come back to that point.

Many of those who post on blogs and on forums (especially those who post episode impression posts) also tend to see themselves as "critics" with varying degrees of seriousness. Some aspire to be the sort of professional critics you might read in newspapers and magazines, who tend to seem heavily opinionated, generally stuck-up, and largely out of touch with the concept of "just enjoying the show". And others just aspire to be attention-getters, filling their posts with their own "cleverness" given that anime "isn't something to be taken seriously". In both cases, these people tend to believe (perhaps subconsciously in some cases) that their own opinion is either equal in value, or greater in value than the anime itself. Worst-case scenario, you will find these people insulting the staff and companies involved in the production of a show or episode out of a presumed sense of importance, as if the fact that they weren't personally impressed is some sort of grave offense that deserves retribution. They also tend to show little discretion in terms of choosing series that they might hope to enjoy, perhaps believing that all anime is equal and should be able to be enjoyed by everyone. There is little or no "reverence" for the production process -- indeed, what most defines these sorts of writers tends to be their irreverence.

So putting these two points together, it seems rather clear to me that even though many people would likely appreciate anime more if they changed their viewing habits and withheld their judgement, the primary motivation for most of these affected people is not necessarily maximizing their enjoyment of anime. Or perhaps it's more apt to say, their enjoyment doesn't necessarily come simply from watching anime, but from being part of the resulting discussion. And this is why, rather than doing the arguably-more-wise thing of abandoning things they hate and embracing those they love, they will tend to harp on the things they hate in order to raise the profile of their opinions and appeal to the disenfranchised. In some cases, they may even do this under the guise of serving as a sort of "warning" for those who may come after them, further exaggerating their own sense of importance. I, like you, tend to see all this with varying degrees of frustration and annoyance. While it certainly isn't wrong to share negative opinions and experiences, I tend to believe that actually enjoying anime is still a lot more important than looking smart, getting attention, or having something to talk about.

The good news is that there actually are a lot of people who enjoy the shows you do, even though they may not be the sorts of things that get the attention of the blogosphere. I've always been surprised by the people who come out of the woodwork whenever I thought that no one else appreciated something I liked. I tend to find that people who are just focused on enjoying the show aren't so interested in having their voices heard above the noise, or especially in fighting against the "prevailing winds". They may not tend to be interested in blogging or forum posting at all, having been burnt out by previous encounters with the aforementioned types of fans. It's sort of more of a "I like what I like, and everyone else be damned" sort of attitude, which doesn't do much towards relieving that sense of isolation ("Why am I the only one who likes this?"), but at the same time can be rather liberating when applied to yourself.

And as for this show in particular... well, to be honest, I've mostly gotten out of watching currently-airing series myself (though perhaps more through a combination of deliberate and unintended factors), so hopefully I'll be able to marathon this series at some point soon. As I had gleaned from a few other trusted sources as well, it sounds like it'll be very much worth it. :)

P.S. As an aside, I noticed that your tendency towards conscientious consideration is evidenced by the way you coded this site as well. Many sites have a "preview comment" function, but I don't know if I've ever seen any that force you to preview, and then advice you to read over your post before submitting. I'm sure that there are many practical reasons you chose to implement it this way, but whether consciously or not, what you're doing is encouraging a more considered attitude in your readers. In essence, you're forcing people to slow down and reflect, and not just opine away, because getting it *right* is more important than being first. I think that's pretty consistent with the attitude you expressed here about the anime viewing and blogging experience as well, and one that I completely agree with and can relate to. :)

3)  Yumeka

You brought up some good points (as did relentlessflame). I still like to watch currently airing shows so I can discuss them with my friends and in the community, but I don't harp on the things I hate about them and simply enjoy them. For new series I watch, I'll usually write my first and last impressions of a show. I've done episode by episode/chapter by chapter posts for only a couple of series, for the same reasons you and relentlessflame mentioned. I'd rather just talk about anime in general or any anime-related topic that pops in my head rather than over-analyze new episodes of current shows.

4)  lesterf1020

I don't know, you might be making a mistake. All anime are not the same. Some anime are best appreciated in a marathon. Seeing the whole story in one concentrated pass creates the best effect.

Some anime are better watched on a weekly basis. They are either episodic or weak on plot or are so densely packed with character and plot and setting that you need a break between episodes to fully appreciate it. Then some anime are the most fun viewed weekly when you can go online and speculate and discuss and debate the show with others without fear of spoilers and knowing that they know no more than you.

Finally there are some anime that have one impact when watched weekly and a very different impact when marathoned. I think you are limiting your options and your potential enjoyment.

5)  digtialboy

>>>>>Why does it seem like I'm the only human being that actually likes certain series? I know that's not true. Can't anyone else see the good points and maybe talk about them a bit, instead of droning on about bad points I all too much disagree with? I'm not asking others to conform to my opinion. It's just that if you don't like a show, why go on and on about it?

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ jpmeyer

I wasn't singling out criticism of 8.0. In fact, due to the nature in which I quickly marathoned the series and only just concluded it, I can't speak at all about how bloggers treated the show. If you want specific examples: White Album and A Certain Magical Index. On this note, I'm making a more general statement.

And it's not about the legitimacy of the complaint. Everyone should be able to make their criticisms heard. The problem I have is with people following a show simply to knock it post after post. On top of that, there's often also a certain vitriol that goes too far, seen most prominently with Endless Eight. Eventually I learn which sites to avoid, but the negativity gets to me much more than I should let it.

@ relentlessflame

First and foremost, thank you so much for the thought out and well explained comment.

"I suspect that many people would have a much greater enjoyment of anime if they were to watch it in large block or batches rather than focus on the week-to-week..."

Jason Miao recently harped on how he felt many bloggers today care more about their blogs than the anime they actually cover. I think that you hit the nail on the head there, and I wonder if the desire to blog is what is pushing some fans to follow week-to-week just to be relevant.

"Worst-case scenario, you will find these people insulting the staff and companies involved in the production..."

Exactly. It gets me when people rip "lazy animators" for "poor animation" without ever considering the real world issues of budgeting, time constraints, and oh yeah, the animator actually having a life outside of work.

Then it gets even worse when the vitriol against an anime spills over to the company. Right now, many "fans" out there seem to hold a damn near violent hatred of the Kyo-Ani staff. I don't even know what to say about that. The studio went a certain direction. So people think it didn't work? The animators don't need to be publicly hanged. Let it go people. The level of hate still out there over one series arc is literally disturbing me.

"I've always been surprised by the people who come out of the woodwork whenever I thought that no one else appreciated something I liked."

Yes, and thank you to all of them. Those sort of opinions bring a needed bit of warmth to a cold and often bitter internet.

One final note on the preview function: I wish other blogs did this. I'm always a bit tepid about posting elsewhere if I can't see the end result first. This especially holds true if I need to insert any code, such as a link. That alone is one of the chief reasons I implemented the mandatory preview. I want for people what I want for myself.

As for attempting to get conscientious consideration for comments, that's one of the key reasons I coded the comment CAPTCHA like I did. It's doesn't always work out like I want, but the idea is that I want you to at least skim the post before you comment. Drive by commenters who don't read the post will hopefully be tripped up, though sometimes there's no other way than to make the question's answer too easy or obvious.

@ Yumeka

For me, the hardest thing to give up would be those discussions... in theory. Some people really do a good and honest job with episodic blogging. But too many others don't even acknowledge that there might be another view of the anime they're blogging. I mean, who in the hell would like Endless Eight who wasn't a delusional fanboy?

Me, actually. And to those that slander: I'm not delusional, thank you.

Sorry, I went off on a tangent. I like the idea you have of first impressions (to point those that still want to follow airings in the right direction) and final impressions.

@ lesterf1020

Here's how I look at it. Once a show has completed its run, you can do whatever you want with it. You don't actually have to marathon it. You can still watch it weekly, or with whatever frequency you want. But if you follow shows as they air, you have to wait a week.

I'm not trying to say that all anime must be marathoned. I'm just saying that waiting until they're finished gives me more options. The choice is mine, and I can find and follow the anime's natural pace.

@ digitalboy

You pointed out a quote I'd like to clarify a bit more. I just would like to see bloggers try and remember that there's always another side, and that there's no real reason to be too deriding, especially ad nauseam. In the end you have to make a point and take a side, but an honest effort to give the work (and its developers) some level of understanding would go a long way. Either that or just leave the dead horse alone.

6)  relentlessflame

Regardless the harping on animators, and especially the online reaction to Endless Eight... I tend to agree that this is one of the best (and by its nature, worst) examples of the judgmental anime audience in action. In retrospect, I think that it was more or less a "perfect storm" of controversy. You had the fanatical fanbase that was feeling annoyed by the delays and false starts. You had the rising groundswell of Kyoto Animation resentment after (the otherwise wildly successful in Japan) K-On! And you had the tremendous cloud of secrecy surrounding the entire thing that caused a giant swell of sudden interest in what was going to happen. And then, Endless Eight.

To be honest with you, I think the root cause of the whole thing may have been because the fantatic fanbase didn't like being laughed at. They held Haruhi to such a glorified standard that when people started mocking the story arc, and the Haruhi fanbase by extension, some of the fans lashed out at the creators instead for not creating the sort of show that all would agree is worthy of praise and respect. They didn't want to be lumped in with the rest of the "Haruhi fanboys" anymore, and so it sucked. In truth, I think that part of the whole thing was that the franchise already had its day in the sun, so people were going to be turned off by the sequel pretty much no matter what the producers did with it. But for them to do something so original and unconventional messed with the "sanctity" of what a certain group of fans had come to expect from Kyoto Animation (adaptations that show an upmost respect for the source material -- though I could argue they still did very much so here), and so their own pride as fans was hurt. All the pent-up anticipation and the subsequent realization that people weren't going to get the content they were most looking forward to right away was just too much.

I personally think that Endless Eight itself was fine, and actually rather enjoyable when you take it all in context of the show on the whole. From an artistic point of view, I think it's a very interesting experiment in film-making. And in consideration for the circumstances surrounding the re-broadcast as promotion for the upcoming movie, I consider it a rather clever use of time. Clearly, they had to fill 14 episodes with content that would come before the movie, and there were only three stories left to be adapted. Rather than go with anime-original material, they chose to expand on one of the existing stories in a way that actually extends the story's relevance and impact without actually breaking terribly far out of canon territory. That sort of care and attention to detail is, in fact, what Kyoto Animation has always done rather well in all their projects. But rather than considering all the careful thought and planning that went into the series, and all the circumstances surrounding the way it was promoted and launched in order to enhance the effect, people just chose to go with their initial gut reaction and scream at the top of their lungs about how much it "sucked". It's a perfect example of the loud, obnoxious, "what have you don't for me lately" mentality that consumes most of the blogosphere. It's always passionate gut reactions over careful, tentative consideration, because that's what "sells".

Anyway, that's my take on it... At the end of the day, once the movie comes out and subsequent TV series or movies continue the story, I think the whole thing will be looked back upon as a bit of a blip on the road. Unfortunately, the sort of "now generation" lacks the ability and foresight to consider that greater perspective as they live in the moment, and so we get these sorts of events. People will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that the world isn't so black and white, and everything we see is the result of countless decisions and circumstances that remain unknown. But by the time they come to that realization and gain some of that wisdom, they may have lost interest in anime and moved on.

7)  usagijen

I've been thinking about my anime consumption ways, and last season, I got close to bidding weekly anime watching a goodbye as well. Like SCREW ANIME SEASONS!, because I found myself getting caught up in the hype of things, tinting my rose-colored glasses more than it should be. And now I start to doubt whether I really really loved previous series I blogged about, or if it was simply a spur-of-the-moment thing, which I also mentioned in this recent post (just the meta intro).

Blogging has certainly affected the way I consume animes, and Jason Miao certainly hit the nail on the head there. But as I've realized, it's not really a matter of giving up weekly watching, but rather changing our mindset as we go along. (oh and feel free to screw weekly blogging, but weekly watching... not quite) There's nothing wrong with seeing things from a different lens than how we saw it before, I think it's but natural... you'll see which series can stand the test of time (and/or hype) with that.

Just recently, I've come to this realization: If I were to follow a series weekly, and/or blog about it, regularly or not, I'd have to disengage myself from a "what the 'sphere thinks about this" mindset just so my feelings for it will be genuine and real. And I'm gonna look forward to it so I can one day look back and see what has changed since then, and it can only make me a better person/fan/etc :)

Cheers! :)

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ relentlessflame

Another dead-on comment! That is without a doubt the most detailed and -- I believe -- accurate look at what went down in the blogosphere with respect to Endless Eight, Haruhi Suzumiya, and Kyo-Ani.

One thing I've always tried to keep in mind is that what we post in the internet is only a small slice of our personality at a specific time in a specific mood that may not always be communicated accurately. In other words, I want to think that most of the rage around Haruhi is less real rage and more just the product of what comes out of people's writing.

That's why I think it's so important to carefully choose your words on the internet. And if you do miscommunicate a point or emotion, it helps to clarify that later. But it's weird that I don't really see clarifications all that often. I have come across as too emotional before with comments, but I've always come back later, scaled it down, and if I really offended, apologized.

But there's no backing down from the rage behind Endless Eight. In their writing, many bloggers still come across as deeply offended by it, as if it was a personal attack against them straight from Kyo-Ani. I guess that defeats my -- naive, maybe -- idea of the level of hate originating from miscommunication. The anger angle is being naive too, I guess. It's most likely what works, what "sells," that keeps these types of critiques-gone-wild going.

I really wish people would remember that though anime may be fantasy, it still originates from the real world. There are animators slaving over this stuff. Every time I hear about industry working conditions, it sounds terrible. But their trials and tribulations are never taken into account for the end product. Yet the hate and anger that the end product may cause gets sent back to them regardless. That's not fair at all.

I also wonder how this hate will spill over into future works. If Disappearance turns out to be phenomenal, how many bloggers will still bash it just because? Does that also mean that Kyo-Ani's next series will become a target regardless of its quality? Who am I kidding? That resentment from Kyo-Ani being at the top was going to create unfair blowback regardless. It's just hit stratospheric levels as of late.

@ usagijen

I do have to admit some shows have been a ton of fun to watch as they aired. Code Geass R2 is one of those shows, that upon a second viewing later, proved to be nowhere as good as when I was a part of the airing. However, this has still been the rare exception.

I don't think blogging has changed how I view anime much at all... but that's probably because I blog so infrequently, lol. I've never had the motivation and dedication to blog episodically, so I never have -- or intend to -- reached the point where anime blogging becomes a chore.

Eureka! Maybe that's it! Maybe that's what makes so many of these "old timer" bloggers so bitter about anime "nowadays." Anime watching, because it's become tied to blogging, has become a chore and isn't as fun as it used to be, back when they were merely fans. That would certainly skew your mindset about new anime, wouldn't it?

Could that be the reason we get all these "this season sucks" posts?

8)  usagijen

It can certainly skew your mindset, especially if you reach a point where you're merely dragging yourself to watch it to blog it, not really to enjoy it. As for the "this season sucks" post, some people can be bitter for other reasons... too attached to the 'good old days', looking forward to upcoming shows not really to see what's in store for them out there but to 'prove their opinion (that this season really sucks and the end of anime is coming) right' :P

oh oh! yeah I forgot. There are animes which work better if watched on a weekly basis, because either the excitement gets you going, or it 'lingers' on your mind a lot longer... and it can lead to quite a change in perspective, compared to just watching a bunch of episodes in one sitting (shitting? XD). And I think some animes can be a little 'too much' to watch more than two or more episodes at one time. Boy it sure can be tricky.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ usagijen

Another thing I think contributes to the "this season sucks" mentality is the lack of an 'uber' show or two. The season in question could have a dozen excellent series premiering, but if it doesn't have at least one Gundam, Code Geass, Haruhi, or other mega-property, than people just don't get excited. Of course, mega-properties are made in the process and can't really be predicted at the start of the season (like Gurren Lagann).

On weekly watching, I now remember another downside: the realities of the fansub scene. Last season I was watching Sea Story... until Ayako dropped it. In situations like that, what can occur is a huge wait (up to multiple weeks) between the last episode and the next one (when someone else finally picks it up). Now that really can make an anime feel disjointed and unfairly damage your view of it. It's one of those real world issues we -- or at least I -- seldom remember to account for when deciding to pick something new up.

9)  usagijen

Oh, also, perhaps you've already read this post by ghostlightning, but I just thought about how recency bias also comes into play here?

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ usagijen

I had not read that post yet, so thank you.

And yes, I fully admit that writing this post only minutes after finishing Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 might have skewed my proclamation of it being better than Bakemonogatari and Eden of the East. However, a few days removed, I still think that it was -- at least -- the most emotional of those shows for me, which usually translates into my favorite. Time will certainly tell more.

10)  usagijen

Oh, I was thinking of your experience with Bakemonogatari, though. Guess it applies to Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 though, though only time will tell indeed :)

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ usagijen

I don't think recency bias affects ranking shows against each other that were all watched at precisely the same time (as in finding the best Summer '09 anime among the airing series that I followed).

11)  nekosasu

I started a comment here, but eventually it got too long and personal, so I took it over to my blog. In fact I had a similar post as a draft for quite a while, but you beat me to it. ;)

Basically, what I'm saying in my post is that I fully agree with all of your points, and that because of those reasons, I usually tend to marathon series as well. But eventually, my blogging greed gets the better of me so I resort to watching in batches, which is a satisfactory compromise.

In the end, there's always the question whether the anime, or the watching experience thereof, would have been any different, had the mode of watching been different. I guess it's a hit and miss with some series, but in the end, it depends on the individual's preferences.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ nekosasu

First off, here's a link to the post nekosasu is referring to. Many thanks to the shout out on your blog.

What you define as 'batch watching' could really work for certain series that are structured for it. Certain recent anime that would be perfect for that method are Bakemonogatari, Umineko, and Spice and Wolf. All three of these series have well defined arcs where you could wait for that arc to end, watch it start to finish, blog about it, and then hold off on watching until the next arc concludes.

The only issue with that is you need to know the structure of the series ahead of time. And the only way I can think of getting that information is to monitor other blogs following said series. Of course, that's always a scary endeavor, what with spoilers and all.

12)  nekosasu

Ah, I forgot to post the link, my mistake.

Yeah, its quite hard to get the structure of a series, many of which often segue in irregular patterns. I've often found myself catching up at the right moment, while sometimes, I even ended up in the middle of a big cliffhanger.

It's actually a nice feeling to have bits of both elements, it's a nice blend of recency with suspense, but that would be only pleasant to me as a watcher; to the blogger in me, it's outright frustrating, since it will make me blog non-episodical and incomplete. It wouldn't hurt to wait one more week then, but yeah, spoilers and all.

It is often a hit and miss, really.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ nekosasu

Even with all of those potential issues, batch watching certainly has its perks. There just has to be a safe, spoiler free way of finding out when an arc ends so that you can resume watching a show for that batch.

13)  Seinime

I definitely find marathoning anime to give me more impact and a stronger sense of connection to the show. Such as when I got bored of this season and picked up Kanon, and marathoned it many episodes at a time. I was able to split the arcs and remember them more clearly than when I watched Clannad weekly, where I would forget crucial sections or references from the previous episodes. Much to my chagrin, it only had 24 episodes. Sigh.

But yes, batch watching has its merits.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ Seinime

Funny you should bring up Kanon; I just marathoned that too. I had been planning a rewatch for a while, so that I could compare it against Clannad and After Story. I ended up finishing all 24 episodes over the course of a single day! I guess that leads to two easy conjectures: I love Kanon... and I have no life.

But definitely, being able to complete an arc in one sitting is a huge plus. And even if you don't do that and wanted a more leisurely pace, you could watch one episode per day. That might not be called marathoning, but it sure beats having to wait a whole week in between whatever you're following.

Also, I too sometimes forget what's recently happened in a series after waiting a whole week. That has to be the most annoying thing I forgot to mention about weekly watching.