Michael is Low on Hit Points

1  Rockfest

StrikerS by itself isn't the greatest series. It has problems, mostly due to a budget meant for a 13 episode series (animation mistakes, a lot of fixes in DVD vers.) and so many new characters that they don't get enough screen time. There are also a few pacing problems (down times are a bit long, it takes a while to get things going) in short, StrikerS tried to do too much. However, StrikerS adds to the Nanoha-verse so to speak. It gives more of a glimpse of the history, structure and the worlds of the TSAB. Its more culturally enriching, rather than entertaining in the normal sense. Sure stuff was predictable, but it has the best battle scenes out of the three series, plus they're legal now which is always a good thing. StrikerS gives life to the entire franchise, at least that's how I see it.

Everyone has their own reactions to StrikerS, who knows yours could be different, just have to wait and see. Then again, the movie is basically a remake of S1, probably better that way. Really looking forward to it now that the trailer is officially out.

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ Rockfest

I'm sure I'll watch StrikerS eventually. I've seen plenty of people state that it "ruined the series," so I'll probably end up liking it the most in a bit of irony.

"...plus they're legal now which is always a good thing."

lol

Thanks for the heads up on the trailer; I didn't know it was already out. Here's the link to the trailer I found if anyone else wants it too.

2  Anonymous

All I wanted was a slightly abnormal juxtaposition of cuteness and violence. Think Higurashi, but with less blood and more choreographed action. Now I will admit that I got a tiny bit of what I wanted. There is some good action to be had in both series. The problem is the balance. As each anime progresses, the action quickly starts taking a backseat.

But it had exactly that. A's even had the nicer and better some choreographed action scenes. And imo, the balance between action and day-to-day activities was perfectly fine. I'm a sucker for character driven series, and Nanoha is partiality one. The usage of scenes outside of action helps flesh out the characters. We get to know them better and see their quirks, and personality.

I was promised cute little magical girls beating the shit out of each other. I wasn't expecting Neon Genesis Evangelion, with layer after layer of complexity when going into Nanoha.

Promised? From the beginning? It was really the opposite with the early episodes of the first season. The premise/setup betrayed some of the typical magical girl expectations. And MGLN = NGE? Honestly now? And layers and layers of complexity? Exaggeration ,maybe? Most things were simple and straightforward, without any real vagueness or hidden cryptic messages. Where are you getting the complexity from?

So then why should I give a fuck if that program vanishes or not? It doesn't help that I already know the series doesn't have the guts to kill even a computer program off.

Because only humans deserve love, affection, and sympathy?

No, origin doesn't matter, so long as there is affection or love present. Not being able to connect or show empathy towards a foreign/alien being that has a mind, and emotions is a problem that lies within the dispassionate person, imo.

But... Reinforce did get "killed".

I think the series just didn't meet with your expected or false expectations that you set for yourself in the place. Or you were looking for a series with cute girls, filled with tons of action, but in the end, you were disappointed since it didn't delivered with what you wanted. Anyways, I respect you opinions. And rants, heh.

Oh, yeah. Did you remember to check out the manga for Nanoha A's? It's supposed to be read along side A's or after watching A's. There's also a StrikerS manga too.

For StrikerS, Rockfest pretty much has it all down. StrikerS is a bit less awesome than A's. It does suffer from pacing issues here and there, and there are too many characters, which results in inadequate development for many of them. The setting and world-building aspect are a plus, though. It has history, and it's slowly building that in StrikerS. The previous main cast has grown in age, and we get to see them in their older selves. Even in StrikerS, they are still maturing and developing. In the end, StrikerS is still enjoyable, especially for fans of the series.

3  TheBigN

Nanoha StrikerS is not the best of the three seasons. However, it's my favorite, which apparently makes me an abomination. :P

4  IKnight

I'd hesitate to call MSLN a magical girl series after the first half of the first season, but that's probably a minor question.

You probably have a point. Something which has always annoyed me about the defence program Final Boss, which might or might not be related to your annoyance, is that I didn't find it very satisfying to see said defence program defeated. Maybe I'm a vindictive person, but I find battles most satisfying when they're either (a) between people we root for and people we dislike (the normal kind of conflict) or (b) between two groups of people, both of which we like (the tragic kind). A's doesn't really fulfil this because I didn't feel much either way for the defence program (the first season and StrikerS managed this specific element better, I think).

5  kadian1364

1) I don't know what parallel universes we're living in, or maybe the definition has warped unrecognizably since I last knew it, but despite its name, Nanoha is not Magical Girl (especially A's and later). In the most literal sense I suppose she is, but the genre most definitely is not. Nanoha is way too shounen in style and structure to categorize with CCS, Sailor Moon, and Shugo Chara. Just ask any female fan of the latter series. And that's how I see it: Nanoha is best enjoyed as a shounen-action series, just without the lengthy filler arcs or arbitrary tournament structure to bog it down.

2) Yeah, the end to A's blew chunks. All the drama and build-up gets cheapened by a lame final boss and forced sympathy for a character we knew for hardly 3 episodes. Plus the reset where everybody comes back to life. It's the reason why Nanoha >> Nanoha A's IMHO, although neither are great, just fairly entertaining.

3) StrikerS is a completely different animal from either of the two earlier series, a total paradigm shift. We go from simple stories of magical relics and talking ferrets, friendship and feelings and family to a story about military bureaucracy (wut), training (bleah!), and secret conspiracies (ugh!). You may or may not grow to like it, but I've made my distaste for StrikerS known.

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ Anonymous

"But it had exactly that." Yes, you're right. It did. It just didn't have enough of it for me. "I'm a sucker for character driven series..." And so am I... usually. I just couldn't find myself getting into most of the cast each series. Thus, my desire for more action.

"Promised? From the beginning?" Reviews I had read on the series tend to state that it had shounen action elements. So, you could say I had been given the wrong expectations going into it. I will admit, that one is my fault.

"And MGLM = NGE?" No, no, no. I'm saying that I in no way expected Nanoha to have crazy depth, similar to a series like Evangelion. It's just a throwaway quote. I wasn't trying to say they were similar. In fact, I was saying the opposite.

"Because only humans deserve love, affection, and sympathy?" No, and I said as much in my post. The series' creators could make me feel empathy here. It can work. I just feel they didn't pull if off as far as Reinforce goes.

"But... Reinforce did get 'killed'." Well, not really. Technically, maybe. But they definitely took an easier way out. It wasn't a full death, which sounds weird saying -- even when I type it up.

"I think the series didn't meet your expected or false expectations that you set for yourself in the place." Bingo! But then, I could have been perfectly fine with the series if it then became something great that I wasn't expecting. It went a different route than I thought it would. It just didn't pull off that route, in my honest opinion. Of course, everyone's mileage will vary on that one. This is just my own experience with the show.

The manga is supposed to be read alongside A's? Never knew about that. I will check it out. As far as StrikerS goes, I'm surprised how commenters are coming out in favor of the series. All I saw previously was vitriol for that season. I'll be sure to check it out... eventually.

@ TheBigN

After reading your post on it, I think I figured something out about you. It seems you don't feel empathy for characters when they bring their problems to you and just expect you to feel sorry for them. If you don't know that character well, you're like "get over it already!"

For you, it seems that you need to get to know a character first, grow into them, and then you can feel empathy for whatever hardships they fall into. Am I wrong here? Sorry to go all mental on you. I'm just trying to get into your mind since you bring up empathy in your post.

@ IKnight

Basically, yes. I didn't have any time to accept the defense program as a valid character I should feel for -- whether that feeling be empathy or hate. It didn't help that she eventually morphed into a generic monster for the good guys to fight. Which brings up my other point about the lack of good fights at the end. That "battle" against that generic monster really sucked in comparison to the girl on girl fights from earlier.

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ kadian1364

1) Nanoha is definitely shounen in style and execution. No doubt. But it is also magical girl. Definitely. And I am a male fan of Shugo Chara. I've also seen some of Card Captor Sakura. All three are magical girl shows. Nanoha just has a shounen slant to it.

2) The thing about the "reset" was that I knew it was going to happen miles away. In that way, it's pretty much what I expected. Which goes to show just how highly I think of the show... But like you said, they both can be entertaining. It's just I was only entertained in short bursts, while the series in full felt dull and poorly executed.

3) And here I thought the only difference between StrikerS and the rest was simply the age of the main characters. It would be so much easier to pencil in StrikerS for a watch if it was only 13 episodes like the other series. Oh well.

6  21st-century-digital-boy

fuck you, Nanoha A's had as much depth as Evangelion! You just didn't look for it! *rages and breaks things*

no but seriously, A's has tons of plot depth in the form of character interactions which are so well-written they make most anime pale and look shitty in comparison. A's is simply put one of the outright most well-written anime I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot of anime...)

I think your problem may have been watching it soon after the first season. The first seaosn was so shallow and horrible, it probably lowered your expectations and you weren't able to pick up the many sublteties of A's.

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ 21st-century-digital-boy

You seem to be in rage mode a lot lately!

And no, I didn't watch A's right after season 1. In fact, I watched the two several months apart from each other. For quite a while, I had no desire to even continue the series. A's started off better, sure enough. But it fell apart towards the end for me.

7  Force

MGLN is seinen, you guys, and for good reasons too (better marketing, series is more about the relationship/emotions, it's character driven, it's a magical girl themed show made in the spirit and idea for older audience, products, products, etc). I hope you all know that... MGLN is a magical girl, and the concept did start out with that idea in mind. There are quite a few shout outs/tributes from this series, to other other series. Most of which are Gundam reference.

The demographic is aimed towards the 19-25, and/or higher. Of course, a show like MGLN hit home with many, many different audiences. Younger girls can enjoy the show, too, but it's neither shoujo or josei, but seinen. And shounen is not a genre. Some people think having detailed or choreographed fights = shounen. But that's not correct at all since there action is a universal genre. Seinen series can have action, and tons of it with bloodier and intenser scenes. Even more explicit since the age group is older. Even shoujo can have good amounts of action. Any series from any demographic can have little or tons of action, and both can either be focused or not-so-focused in detail. Of course, shounen is aimed for boys and teen, so high level action are just more prevalent in the shounen demo. Can't forget that not all shounen have heavy/detailed fights in them since shounen is a buffet of different genres. But, of course, that's obvious.

Anyways, it's kind of weird to think of A's or StrikerS as a magical girl genre show since the concept of magical girl becomes less and less present. And the idea of just "girls" is destroyed since even males are no different with the barrier jacket/armor. The only faint residue left is in the transformation scenes, which is a treat to keep the spirit of magical girls around. But that's only it. The upcoming new 4th series, as a manga, did away with "Girl" in the title now since Nanoha is hardly a girl anymore...

8  Michael Flux

I think it, like most of the anime these days is complete crap and is made just for the sake of making a quick buck without anyone actually believing they'll make it past 1st season.

I mean take this Spring season, and of the dozen or so new series that came out, you could call only maybe 2 of them "good", the rest were pure shit recycled to no end.

But, as long as at least 1% of the people watch them and buy the crappy merchandise, such crappy series will continue to be made every single season.

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ Force

After this post's comments and this previous one too, I think I've been thoroughly schooled on anime classification. I agree with what you said on both the seinen targeted demographic for Nanoha, and shounen being a "demographic" and not a "genre." I get loose with the terminology in my posts and I here all about it! But if it helps me stay more accurate -- it does -- then thanks.

@ Michael Flux

That's too harsh. 90% of everything is crap, and that works for the past too, not just the present. And I'm sure if you took a shot at every anime this season, you'd find more than 2 you'd like. Finally, a large number of people have to buy the merchandise to keep things flowing. If you satisfy that large a number of people, something is being done right.

While originality is great, it's not the final decider on what is good or what is not. Execution matters as much as anything. And truthfully -- if I had to guess -- it sounds like you have a bone to pick with a certain style of anime.

9  Grimoire2

@Michael Flux

Well, that's nice. I don't agree with your thoughts, and much less like your tone and attitude, but I'll respect your opinions nonetheless. I'll say this though: anime has not drastically changed at all. Whether you like it or not, things have actually progressed better in many areas. Many will say that it depends on who you ask, though. And the vibe I'm getting from you feels more like a dislike for certain types of shows. Or maybe you dislike anything that doesn't reach some level of standard that you set for yourself. Or perhaps you do like those certain shows, but may feel guilty or scared of admitting that you like it, and the only way to truly enjoy them without being judge by others like yourself is to deny them, saying it is crappy. If that was the case, that'd be an unpleasant pretense to live under.

With that said, there are great anime, good anime, decent, mediocre, and even crappy series out there. But for some people, there are only two kinds of shows: good or shit. The middle ground does not exist for them. What's good for them is hard to guess, and is up to their definition and preference. Anything that doesn't hit their taste or liking is automatically considered crap. I can never take those kind of people seriously, and I don't believe anyone should.

Then there are people don't even know how to enjoy anime in general. Many of them fail to see the appreciation of certain series, the behind-the-scene treats/fanservice from the creators. And some people fail to understand the cultural when one sinks their teeth into anime. All of these are factors when it comes to enjoying a show. It also becomes a factor when it comes to reviewing or handing out criticisms. Of course, that doesn't mean we forgo reviewing things objectively.

At the end of the spectrum, there are those who simply just hate and spite certain shows/franchise. Whether it's hatred for a specific genre or hatred for certain themes is hard to tell. And impossible to know if they are truthful or not. Trolls or opinions? The discrepancy between the two always becomes harder and harder to contrast.

I digress--

MGLN is fun and an awesome franchise to get into, imo. The concept is interesting, and it holds a lot of possibilities, which are achieved through magic/programs, dimensional space, ancient civilizations, and the military aspect on top of the established magical girl concept. The characters are interesting and likable. And the fan mythos behind a few characters here and there are fun to partake in. Also, Hayate is love. She's easy to understand, and endearing to feel and sympathize with. Plus, she's a likable character, one who's strong, smart, and very determined when she sets her mind on something. Also, she's such a cheater...if you know what I mean.

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ Grimoire2

Wow, stunning write up! You made a ton of excellent points there.

I think Michael Flux was just on a small rant after some small grievance fired him up. That's the issue with online interaction. One quote can be taken out of context and magnified as an entire personality. I definitely agree with your side of the argument, but I also don't want this to get too personal. It hasn't yet, and I just want to make sure it doesn't go there.

...and now back to Nanoha. "...magic/programs, dimensional space, ancient civilizations, and the military aspect on top of the established magical girl concept." When you put it like that, it just sounds so good. I just wish the execution was better. I'm interested in if the upcoming movie can take that same material and kick out something I really enjoy.

10  TheBigN

I don't need to know the characters well if I can find a reason to care for them, to be honest. As long as the circumstances can hit a note with me in the right way, it works. Knowing the character does help with that though. In the case of Nanoha and A's, the backstories and situations of some of the characters in the series, they didn't compel me to feel for them. It wasn't due to a lack of not knowing the character, as I did get that in the series, but the situations that were in the series felt a touch overdone, almost to the point where it felt like I was being told by the show to feel something when I wasn't feeling it.

You feel me? :P

Re  Michael is LoHP

@ TheBigN

Yeah, I get you now. I guess I'll stick to my job as a programmer and give up my dreams of being a psychoanalyst! lol