Michael is Low on Hit Points

1)  omo

This would not please everyone across the isle. It would only please the people who don't understand the current ending. However it's a good try.

I think the problem with your suggestion is that it actually alters the meaning of the story. Maybe if you can come up with a method that can retains the reasons why did Ushio and Nagisa passed away, it might work.

Personally I think art doesn't need to be apologetic. Well, it's another question to ask if CLANNAD is art... But I think it's a much more meaningful exercise to get people to see why the current reset is actually kind of good, and it isn't just an exercise in the emotional motions of people dying, miracle saves, hurrah. That's really missing the point.

2)  psgels

The problem I had with the ending wasn't the fact that it was a reset ending. It was more that it came from out of nowhere. The whole revive thing felt like it was slapped at the last possible minute without any build-up whatsoever. If the creators introduced the concept of time travelling throughout the series, and made it a core theme like it was in the game, there wouldn't have been any problem.

3)  Josh

omo - You bring up an interesting point in that, I'm not exactly sure WHAT the meaning of the story is supposed to be based on how it ended.

Is it if you don't regret your past, then you'll get a chance to go back in time and have a different one? That if you go through horrible hardship and pain, that you get to press a magical reset button in the end?

If there was a point or message that the last 5 or 6 episodes were supposed to have, it got wiped out by the "reset." In any case, I can't tell that anything that happened during that time "caused" the reset to happen, it just happened. I mean, the glowing balls that supposedly allowed this to happen were barely seen.

As for retaining the reason why Ushio and Nagisa passed away - as far as I could tell, no reason was ever given other than the fact that they were "sick."

Which brings me to psgels comment, which I generally agree with. I think if this had been drawn out and better explained, it would have been an acceptable ending, but it wasn't. It "just happened" basically.

In any case, if you need a user manual to explain what the moral of the story is, you failed at telling your story.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ omo

You mention a "more meaningful exercise to get people to see why the current reset ending is actually kind of good." How exactly is this ending any good? I mean that seriously and with no offense. Please let me know just what I'm missing here.

What exactly is the "meaning of the story?" What exactly were they trying to express here?

@ psgels

But how would they introduce this "reset button" into the plotline? If they had played this card with earlier character stories such as Misae's arc, people would have called foul there too.

If they had hinted that a reset was possible before all the bad stuff went down, would the sad moments have had the same effect? No way. I think that it's less the build up and more the actual plot device that's at fault here.

@ Josh

What's truly confusing is that the story has long hinted Nagisa and Ushio's sickness came from humans developing on top of the natural land. The light orbs, however, came from Tomoya fixing peoples' issues. What "helping the Sunohara's connect as brother and sister" has to do with the restoring the natural land is beyond me.

4)  Miha

I only played a few days into the game, never finished it, never delved into the storyline until the anime was over. When the "reset" happened (I'm not sure if that's the right word for it, anyway), the first thought that came to my mind was Kotomi's different world theories, so I figured it has to do something with that. I didn't give it much thought until I browsed some blogs the other day, but whatever the actual storyline mess, it didn't matter to me. The message was clear: Tomoya needed to learn that life comes with its share of ups and downs, and that accepting what you get opens the path toward the future, reset or no reset button.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ Miha

But Tomoya accepting life's ups and downs opened the path toward the past, along with a new life without its share of downs and just the ups.

5)  Omisyth

I agree with that solution, as I'd be much more pleased with Nagisa saving Ushio than the reset.

In response to Omo, it isn't necessary to have the city be responsible for anything (which is what I assume you mean from "altering the story") if you go with Michael's ending. You could even say that the girl in the illusionary world was Nagisa instead and have her telling Tomoya about saving Ushio.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ Omisyth

The thing about the Illusionary World is that its climax is at the wrong point in the story. From what I can tell by Wikipedia (haven't played the game), upon the end of this facet of the story, the girl tells Tomoya to collect the light orbs to get the good end.

However, in the anime, Tomoya has already collected all of the light orbs by that point. This segment of the story losses its original meaning then anyways. The Illusionary World is already being modified for the anime. Might as well run with it.

Changing the function of the Illusionary World to allow Nagisa to save Ushio is what I was getting at above. Making the girl there be Nagisa is something I meant to say in the original post. My bad for leaving out that explanation.

6)  omo

Just to answer the one question:

>>What exactly is the "meaning of the story?"

This a big question and is not what I was getting at, so I'll rephrase the question a bit:

>>What exactly was the point of the Illusionary World and the nonlinear narrative?

The point is about perspectives in a chronological sense. Think: AIR. The player (by extension Okazaki) had to experience the grief and Okazaki's memories was not reset, as other people pointed out. It's about regret, and you can't have that until all that bad stuff has happened to you, yes, even Ushio (as that's where the abuse occurred). The whole dragonballs routine is not really necessary to understand to appreciate the point; a reset can be seen as a reset. But the question here is that people have to understand why it was reset thematically, not in terms of plot; and what exactly was reset. At this point we don't know for sure, even.

Perhaps understanding the plot element might have helped people to get the thematic element like psgels mentioned, but that might be belaboring and cheapening the point too much by the measures of a TV series. If there's a particular point where the narrative failed in the present, is that it did not spend the time to focus on Okazaki's own regret and lament that led to his demise. If there's a weakness in the presentation of the adaptation, that's where it is.

In essence, the reset can be improved if they focused on Okazaki's life after Ushio rather than on looping back on Ushio's remateralized form, so people 'get it better.' But I guess they might be setting it up for episode 24, who knows.

I hope I correctly understood Michael's alternate ending, because to me that is a different thematic point than the one CLANNAD After Story is trying to make.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ omo

Well, here's where I come down in the end. After all of this conversation -- across many a blog -- I still don't get the ending either technically or thematically. Here you say to move past the light orbs and focus in on the theme behind the ending. But that's what so many people have been arguing against all along.

If there is even a proper theme behind the ending, it's been muddled in translation. And even then, we might not particularly feel that particular theme fits. I guess there will always be a wall of confusion between those who've played the game and those -- like me -- who haven't. Because at this point, neither side seems to be getting across to the other.

To be blunt, I'm not even sure what you're saying at all in your last comment. I'm not sure what thematic point you specify that they're trying to get across. I'm not sure how focusing on Tomoya's "regret and lament" has anything to do with reseting time. Him still remembering everything that happened doesn't magically fix my problems with the ending.

Sorry if I'm missing what you're trying to say in its entirety.

7)  omo

I think "fixing the problem" requires identifying the problem. I think you did that. But if we actually change the theme while doing that then that's not desirable either.

I don't really think it matters if you've played the game or not. It does matter if you understood the theme or not. You do have a point in that its obfuscated, but it's there.

A theme (as in stories) is just a broad, abstract concept in a story. What are the larger, abstract concepts CLANNAD is trying to express in respect to the Nagisa After Story arc? I think it's sort of clear by the time Ushio bites the dust. The only thing missing is having Tomoya realizing it and telling it to the audience. But if we removed the Ushio part of the story we've missed a whole lot of very good stuff.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ omo

I get what you're saying here. It seems that I'm more open to changing things around, even if the theme of the ending gets tweaked a bit in the process. Either way, I simply wanted something different from what we got, even if the thematic substance gets modified.

But I can definitely see your point on why you want to preserve the original theme. You can't please everyone with one ending. But if you cheat like I did in the post by using the extra episode (23, or 24) to do the visual novel ending too, just maybe you can please everyone? Though I have a feeling the answer is still no...

8)  nova

it seemed to me watching the show without any background that when they were describing the multiple worlds idea that alot of it involved it being mental

and the 'reset' didnt really seem like a miracle but more of his mind giving him a flashfoward or kind of "a Chrismas Carol" effect to straighten himself out so he can do better for everyone but what either way it was confusing.

Re)  Michael is LoHP

@ nova

That's certainly a unique way to look at it. I think that would have been way too depressing, if after two major loses all Tomoya could do is comfort himself with illusions.