Michael is Low on Hit Points
Comparing three different cast types, watching a series for a single character, and Senjougahara fascination
- Posted August 15th, 2009 at 8:02 PM ET
- Subjects Chrome Shelled Regios, Bakemonogatari
- Tags short editorial
- Image sources
1- Infinite Ryvius [unknown]
2- Felli Loss [unknown]
3- Senjougahara Hitagi [unknown] - Video searches
none
What style of cast is truly the best? A cast of characters with individual depth? A cast of flat but lovable characters? Or a cast of characters that build off of each other? I'll use a few examples for each to get the conversation flowing. Also, I take the dive and try out a series I expect to be bad in order to follow one single character. Was it a mistake? And finally, Senjougahara fascination may be drowning out appreciation for the rest of Bakemonogatari's cast.
Note: this post is intended as general discussion, and all series / characters are only talked about at a skin deep level. No spoilers, I promise.
How do you like your casts?
Cast #1: characters with individual depth.
Many of these cast members can be found at the top of favorite character lists on sites like MyAnimeList. They compete in your SaiMoe and SaiGar, or whatever. Of course they will interact and form relationships with other cast members. But viewing the full show's cast dynamic is not needed to appreciate them. They have enough unique qualifiers to stay out of their natural archetypes.
Examples (all up for debate, of course): Clannad, Fate / stay night, Cowboy Bebop
Cast #2: flat but lovable characters.
There's not a lot of depth in these characters. In fact, they're kind of generic and stereotypical when you get down to it. But that won't stop them from also topping popularity charts. They play their roles, and they play them quite well. They may not be great in a classic literary sense, but can you really dislike them all that much? In fact, they are quite lovable despite -- or because of -- their familiarity.
Examples (all up for debate, of course): Bleach, Shakugan no Shana
Cast #3: characters that build off of (maybe even require) each other.
None of these characters are usually called great on their own. They have their depth, sure. But something is missing from making them stand out. You likely won't find them at the top of popularity charts. Which may be odd, considering they all belong to shows that many people will swear have amazing casts. And do they!
Examples (all up for debate, of course): Infinite Ryvius, Simoun
There isn't any classical definition of cast types I'm following here. This was wholly my own subjectivity. So you're free to rip apart the way I've divided things, if you wish. And I'm well aware that my writing (at least of the analytical variety) is not up to snuff. So if you want more clarification on what I'm trying to get at with each type, feel free to ask (or critique).
But I'd really like your opinion. Which of these three types do you enjoy the best? Note that I say "enjoy," not what you may think is the best in the literary sense. In other words, you may think that #3 should be the better one, but then you may truly enjoy #2 the most. And that's what I'm wondering, though of course you are free to argue the other perspective too.
Trudging through "terrible" for a single character
Going into Chrome Shelled Regios, I had garnered from the blogosphere two things. One is that Felli Loss would be a good character. Two is that Felli would be the only good thing about the show. Now I know that last statement was a bit blunt and unfair. But I am merely getting at what I was "generally" expecting.
In other words, I picked up the show to check out a single character.
How has that turned out so far? I'm not entirely sure. Without a doubt, Chrome Shelled Regios is not what I would call a good show. In fact, most of it is indeed terrible. The animation is often hideous and the music is a mixed bag at best. The writing and direction both need work in a bad way. But despite all the show's faults so far (8 episodes in), I see how it could have had potential.
On the other side, Felli turned out to be a good character... or at least one with plenty of potential. Like a lot of things in the series so far, that potential has not fully been met. In the end, the single good character could not save the show because the show's faults will carry over to that character. Or at least here it did. Felli is one aspect of the entirety of Chrome Shelled Regios that didn't live up to potential.
So then why am I still watching? Because that smidgen of potential has me interested. Not because of Felli. And thus -- at least from this one experience -- I conclude that a character (no matter how "stand out") is intrinsically linked to a show and thus can only go as high as the show can overall.
Senjougahara fascination movement
The praise for Senjougahara Hitagi of Bakemonogatari is certainly not misplaced... at least entirely. She is a well written, well constructed character that drives the best conversations of the season. Her importance continues beyond her thematic arc and her development thus far is moving at a natural, realistic pace. There really isn't much about her overall design that needs to be criticized.
But there is one issue here. There's a reason she ended up being such a great character; that's because she's in Bakemonogatari. Now think about that last point for a moment. Who in this show isn't a good character? ............. no one! There hasn't been a cast member -- given enough development time -- that's turned out bad yet.
In general, Bakemonogatari's dialogue is superb. Any two characters simply talking to one another has created magic so far. They're all great in their own slightly unique ways. Is Senjougahara the best? Sure, I think so. But stepping back a bit, I can't say that she's a million light years ahead of anyone else in the cast. They all deserve credit... or should I say, the writer is the one who really deserves the credit.
So I'm all for Senjougahara fascination. But let's not forget about Hachikuji fascination and Araragi fascination and Hanekawa fascination, etc etc.
1 ghostlightning
I don't really know if I have a favorite. I variably like|dislike the teenage pilots that dominate my favorite anime genre (mecha). I like major and side characters alike.
Looking at my MAL list (http://myanimelist.net/profile/ghostlightning)
I can say that these characters are larger than life. They are less 'realistic' though they are believable (in that they are internally consistent), and moreso, they are compelling.
They qualify for the first three criteria you made. This is what I observed.
2 digitalboy
I hate to answer with website whoring, but I have a post that is the *perfect* reply to this post.
http://fuzakenna.com/2008/05/23/it-builds-character-or-depth-vs-chemistry-and-the-tournament-of-themes-pt-1/
Re Michael is LoHP
@ ghostlightning
I definitely have to agree with your preference for less real but internally consistent characters being the most compelling. But then, who amongst us is really "real." Most of us are much weirder, much more unique internally than we let on. Or at least I'd like to believe that about people.
@ digitalboy
Yes, that was in fact the perfect reply. To think that you anticipated this post by a whole year+ and wrote out such a long comment! So I see that you are a #3 man. "Chemistry" was the word I was missing in my post.
I agree with you that chemistry is the best, but am I really being truthful in saying that? Shows with incredible chemistry (Ryvius, Simoun) don't yield my favorite characters. Those tend to come from cast type #1.
And one final unrelated note concerning your linked post: it is so canon! So very, very canon...
3 Omisyth
Actually, three of my favourite characters fit into those 3 descriptions.
1. Maes Hughes - given much more depth in the original FMA.
2. Kuchiki Rukia
3. Horo - who develops through her interactions with Lawrence.
Like GL, I don't really have a favourite cast type. As long as it's executed well, I don't really mind.
Speaking of cast types, I'd also like to suggest characters and casts that subvert the usual stereotypes. I've completely forgotten the show I was going to mention, but it's always nice to see when writers defy the audience's expectations with flat characters that evolve and change as the series continues.
And I thought Chrome-Shelled Regios was great. It's cast may fall partly into category #2, but I loved the music and the animation and art isn't terrible at all.
Re Michael is LoHP
@ Omisyth
I seem to have poorly explained my cast hierarchies. First off, I'm trying to talk about casts as a whole, not specific characters. I think I see where I went wrong with the wording there. For example, Spice and Wolf falls under type #1. There characters have good depth (#1). They don't conform too obvious stereotypes, and any archetypes they belong to, they exceed (ruling out #2). You shouldn't be able to fit a show into both #1 and #2 (or #3) at the same time.
#3 should take effect only when the entirety of the cast is built off of chemistry and almost chemistry on its own (like say, Simoun or Ryvius). I guess that makes things a little odd though; #1 and #3 often go together in a way. What I was trying to do -- I guess in a bit of a round about way -- was figure out why I loved the casts of Simoun and Ryvius, but not one character from them would make an all-time favorite character list of mine. That bugs me.
On Chrome Shelled Regios, it's not so much the "art" that's bad, it's the animation. Characters just are not drawn consistently. A lot of angles look awkward. Animation is jaunty and not fluid. The music is ok, but when top anime after top anime have amazing, truly amazing soundtracks, CSR comes up short.
4 Omisyth
Ah, okay. I feel like that type of structure is too rigid. In some of my favourite casts, those elements can bleed into each other. I'd rather refrain from type-casting them in such a way.
5 kadian1364
Generally I prefer cast types 1 and 3, if I understand you're definitions correctly. That said, type 2 are workable, and are the kind I prefer in pure comedies or comedy/s'life genre shows, like AzuDai, Aria, Sketchbook, etc. As long as the jokes and scenarios are fresh, there's something reassuring about knowing how the characters will interact and react. I like going, "Oh, Osaka!"
Re Michael is LoHP
@ Omisyth
It wasn't exactly supposed to be an all inclusive / exclusive structure. It was more for the question at hand than for being an actual literary divide. Of course many casts check off more than one of those options. But in a situation (more theoretical) where you would get only one of the three, which do you prefer more often?
It appears after a few comments I did an exceptionally poor job of explaining myself...
@ kadian1364
Osaka is great, isn't she!
What about a drama series using cast #2? I would think that could be a recipe for disaster, but plenty of decent dramas have survived with cliched casts. It's obviously not the best situation, but would a #2 cast in a drama be acceptable?
6 Eye Sedso
I'd have to say that cast type 1 is my favorite. Overall, I love unique characters. A good example of what I'm talking about would be the characters in Zayonara Zetsubou Sensei. All of the characters are different, and have one special or unique quality to them that makes them stand out as individuals. I mean, one girl is always hurt because she collects tails off of animals, which bite and scratch her. If that's not unique, then I don't know what is.
That being said, a good show is one that can mold all of these cast types together. A good example of this would be.....uhh.....well I'm sure that there's an example...maybe Welcome to the N.H.K. They had kind of stereotypical characters, (hikikimori, otaku), but gave each one a good personality that grew and changed with the show. Also, the way that they interacted with each other was necessary for the plot, and.....you know what, it's just a great show.
But yea, cast type 1 definitely.
Re Michael is LoHP
@ Eye Sedso
I think Welcome to the N.H.K. would qualify for cast type 1, as many of the characters (especially the lead) have a ton of depth to them. They are really fleshed out and delved into. Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei -- I believe -- should be type 2. Each cast member is very unique and original. But they're more often flat characters, known (and easily explained by) a singular defining trait. But of course, my own language ("unique qualifiers to stay out of their natural archetypes") seems to point to cast type 1...
And thus this has to be one of the most poorly written posts I have ever done. At this point, I barely have a handle on what I was trying to get across, which is exceedingly appearing to be poorly thought out cast divisions. Ugh.
But it still has been nice hearing peoples thoughts on cast structure and styles. Thanks, as always.